In my mind, there's no real debate here. It's not like PC (Windows) or Mac doesn't work at all. Again, both are buggy and both perform well at the same time. There's so many varied factors.

If you're going for look and feel, it's hard to centralize a debate on something that's relative and subjective to each user.

What can be said is that with Mac, you're pretty much locked down to Apple's view of aesthetics, with very little customization possible. If you're good with that, then there's no real issue for you. However, if you're not, you'll probably be looking at PCs, (Windows) as pretty much you can build any custom looking system you want. There are also more customization of the OS skin/apps on PC (Windows) than Mac. Both equally allow scalable icons and docks/sidebars/widgets, etc., for all your navigational needs. Navigation is about finding the quickest way from A to B.

As of late, (and after SP1 for Vista) I have now gotten more system freezes on my Mac. But to say Mac "sucks" because of this is a very generalized and limiting comment. To say I don't like PC (Windows) because I personally have difficulty resonating with Bill Gate's "look and feel" is limiting my world view on computing, when it's what's under the hood that really counts at the end of the day.

Ultimately, computing it's about allowing you to complete the tasks you are asking it to do. Like humans, computers aren't perfect, software code gets mangled and hardware accumulates wear and tare just like any other material on Earth.

My best advice to anyone whether PC (Windows) or Mac is to get in the habit of adopting good and frequent save/backup practices.

Overall, you're never going to see a perfected machine as long
as profit is a factor. You will always see the "one-up" game of tech advancement geared at the public sector, just enough to make it seem like there's a huge competition between two or more companies when in reality there's not. Giant leaps are extremely rare in the business.

Happy computing everyone.

WOW. It is first really smart discussion on the subject I came across. I am Mac user for about 8 years and Windows user as well (my desk PC on a job) and I am very familiar with Linux, Solaris, AIX etc.
I think I will go back to Vista. It looks to me like osx lost its momentum. I do video, audio, photo etc., professionally. 8 years ago PC had no viable alternative. It was shaky, crashy, mundane. Today Adobe Suite is everything that people like I need and it runs on PC WAY BETTER than on Mac (does not require Java Run Env). I do Final Cut and it was nice program but it is way behind the competition (in 2009 still no Blu-Ray support!!!!!) Some argue that I can run BR authoring under Windows on the same machine, yes it is possible, but why do I need $3.000 Mac Pro for doing that?! I can do it on $900 HP Pavilion!
I don't care who takes from whom features, all I care is to get stable and accessible OS with slue of available software.
FInal Cut, despite all of its nice features is incomplete and incoherent. Some of its components don't even have same GUI and apparently recompiled from X-windows environment. Adobe rules.
Apple also is very harsh and categorical on their hardware decisions and ignore users completely. I invested in Power Mac G5 that used PCI and new generation simply does not have this interface! Who cares about people invested thousands of hard earned $$$$ into professional peripheral equipment! So it about a time to get a new machine and it is unlikely to be Apple's box.
The environment of OS X is very restraining, Finder is toy-oriented rather than be task oriented.
Yes, no viruses visited OS X so far... But you know what? I never, ever had viruses on any of my PC as well! If you install OS from stolen media, download all kind of garbage on it, you can expect the problems. I PAY FOR MY SOFTWARE, so I get updates, I do not download junk and I have Norton Security that is AWESOME.

I did not visit PC market for shopping for many years, and today I'm amazed how much more versatile, advanced and capable it is. I own at the moment 4 Apple's computers and sold 2 more, so I can speak about their hardware. My Power Mac was broke severely 2 times in 3 years (apple fixed it as I had extended warranty on it). My 17" PowerBook has never ending DVD drive issues and now it refuses to restart after sleep. All of my laptops had countless issues with loosing/stacking keys, loose their feets etc. For the same period of time I had Toshiba Satellite, IBM's book , HP Pavilion and HP's worstation. NONE OF THEM HAVE EVER HAD ANY ISSUES! My HP's 6000 workstation is a freaking example of robustness and quality. It does not look cool, it is a black/gray box under the hood of my desk but man, it is a performer!!!
I'm sick and tired of Mac's BS about who they are and how they do things. They are another UNIX clone with proprietary GIU. Apple ripped off GNU project who did all the work for them. It is another Linux. After they moved to Intel and disengaged from public project, there are unofficial releases of OS X that naturally run on regular PC. It is unstoppable.
But you know what? I am not going to run OS X, I actually prefer Vista. Sure it had some issues (man OS X circa 2002-2004 was piece of ...) but today it is very nice and accommodating.
I am not happy to switch back... but I need a tool and apple machines of today are toys. Today's apple is about iphone, ilife etc., their claim their former minute of glory. They were the best for couple of years Final Cut did not see updates for over 2 years...

I'm switching back to Windows after two years of Tiger/Leopard. I tried really really hard to like OS X but that WOW factor never happened for me. The computer is a tool not an 'experience', and Windows lets me do what I want to do in a much more intuitive fashion than OS X, in this user's opinion. To each their own. I have nothing bad to say about OS X - it's just that I prefer Windows so I'm switching back.

AHHHHHH!!!! I HATE when the term 'PC' is used to refer to computers that run Windows!!! PC means Personal Computer, folks. The Commodore 64 fit that description! Instead just call it a Windows computer. A Mac is, now, really no different than a Windows computer, except that it runs Mac OS and is only sold by Apple. Under the hood, they are the same thing.

I use both Mac (Tiger) and Win (Vista 32 Home premium) and in my experience I find both systems comparable, give or take a few apps. on both fronts.

As a graphic designer (day job) I find that Vista has made a larger leap in GUI changing from XP, than Mac changing from Tiger to Leopard.

As far as stability, I find both systems function and dysfunction at very comparable paces. I get occasional, yet slight freezes on both systems when resources get low. And both systems are rather beefy ones as far as hardware is concerned. As far as Vista being "unstable", this has not been my experience at all. However, it does use a good partition of memory on startup, so I recommend installing at least 4 gigs of ram.

3rd-party plugins and apps can bring both systems even closer to one another I'm not sure why there's such a battle these days. For example, if you download an app like Objectdock (from Stardock) you can have virtually the same dock as you get in Leopard on Vista. In opposite, you can run several Windows programs on Intel Macs.

I think this whole over-hyped illusionary battle between Mac and Windows is nothing more than a marketing stunt. What the real "suck" in all of this is the vacuum of consumers that fall for the trick.

It "used" to be in my particular line of work, (marketing/graphic design) that Mac was the boss. This couldn't be farther from the truth today and for some time now as both systems run in most cases the exact same software.

The most important feature of any OS is to drive the software that you need it to drive. If your computer whether Mac or PC does this with relative success, then what exactly is the issue?

Fractions of milliseconds of difference in processing and speed is just an extremely anal retentive debate in my mind. All this argument does is further demonstrate how easy minded you to time proven marketing techniques.

I'll reveal a little tip: If a product can get you to identify yourself through it, (Apple is good at aiming their products at the artistic and posh sectors ) you will throw your last dollar at it every time. You somehow believe it's speaking to you. The thing is, you are not a product, and there's no product out there that could ever come close to identifying your uniqueness or your own creativity. So don't buy into it.

These corporations are in it to make money, not friends. The trade-off to this is basic supply and demand. In order for these corporations to profit, they have to build something that works. Yet if they want to make profit in the future, (known as repeat business) they have to find unique ways to not allow it to work "too good". Regardless of what side of the fence you choose to place yourself, you're never going to get a full proof platform.

The real battle here is not PC vs. Mac. It's Rational Consumer vs. Emotional Consumer. When both systems operate in a similar fashion running the same software, the debate is then left within the illusion that you unfortunately bought and paid for.

Please!
I was a pc user for least 10 years and I was blind all the time, i'm using leopard rigth now and i dont want to stepback to Windows anymore.
let me tell more.......
I'm a freek of pc building and i build a q6600 intel based hardware , and was too sad with the vista performance and I install the xp pro again ,but please dont defend windows shit against OS X its clear for all its not the same.
windows sucks, leopard its a smart os.
dont lose your time and see how I am Happy......
haha!!

Btw, for those who say that people only switch from Windows to OS X and not the other way around... one of my friends bought a MacBook thinking she would like it, but she now hates it (but is now stuck with it). I don't really know why, but then again, I don't see why people hate Windows either. Some people will love one and hate the other, some otherwise.

Also, if I remember correctly, Microsoft actually invested in Apple back in... 1997? some time around then... a couple million $$ so that Apple could stay alive. I remember seeing Jobs's keynote from that year, and Bill Gates made an appearance (and got boo'ed, even though he's saving their beloved Apple... shows how thankful Apple fans were), and that's the reason IE was made the default browser for Macs all the way up till.. 2002?

This is quite sad. From personal experience, I like Leopard, Vista, and XP all about the same. Each one has its own perks and shortcomings.

But the Mac vs. PC debate has no sense. Mac users say that they have better hardware than PC "crap", when really, Apple uses the same chips as everyone else but charge more for them (I did a comparison not too long ago, a $1600 Dell and ASUS laptop had the same specs as a $2700 MBP). I can run OS X just fine on the "PC" laptops (in fact, I have it running on my laptop right now, and it benchmarks just as high as similar MBP's). The only difference is the looks and the software... so when Mac users say "Macs can run games too" is really saying "Macs are not compatible with games, so we have to use your software, which we constantly bash, to run games"... which in itself is a lame excuse for software compatibility. That said, I like some of OS X's features, like the dock, dashboard, and expose, but I like Window's taskbar just as much (have you tried using expose once every 10 seconds trying to copy something from one window to another? it's a PAIN). I haven't had any virus problems in Windows for years, and very few crashes (Macs crash too, and from past experience with non-intel macs, they crashed a LOT). You don't even have to pay for anti-virus... there's freeware anti-virus and firewalls that do arguably better jobs than paid ones (think avast, AVG, Zonealarm, Comodo, etc).

All in all, I like all OS's (I tried Ubunutu for a tiny bit, but I didn't exactly love it), but I really hate how some Mac users are always saying how their OS is "far superior" to Windows or their hardware is "much better" than PC "junk", when really, it's all the same.

u guys should get a life

Pirated software is easy to find for windows.


TOP THAT!


LOL!

Not sure it's the "right" point of view you just gave Arnold... Through the years I've learned that what doesn't kill us makes us stronger.. What Microsoft has done to Apple almost killed it but didn't, and thank God the company is stronger than ever.

Not stronger than Microsoft. If these two OS exist it doesn't necessarily means they are competitors, some people are Mac users while some others are PC users that's all...

Used to have these chats with a US friend, while I was telling him I hate American cars and was a complete fanatic of german cars he was telling me the opposite. We both learned to respect each others...

So please...

HEY! Windows users... why are you always so eager in defending the worst OS in the world! How do you justify buying antivirus softwares with everyday updates, yearly renewals... BAHHH boooorrriinnggg.... Ill choose my mac over the lamest OS in the world... And for those tired of the discussion... well I dont even think it is a discussion, the thing is we Mac users are very proud of the OS we work with everyday, and feel the need for others to get interested... because we have tried both and seen the difference.

Linux? no way... Mac OS all the way

You don't have to be sorry, what you've said is logical, and it is something that comes from a personal experience, it's as if someone who uses a manual box gear says he is sorry because he doesn't like automatic box gears...

Vista is by far the best Operating system from Windows, Ive used leopard and i dont see the whole different from the last release of OSX? The way Macs are is that the software is writen for certain Hardware configs.

However on PC/ Windows there hundreds , millions of different hardware configurations, I would love to see Apple make a operating for a pc and see how much it would suck. Ha

Sorry , im a die hard Windows user even though i have to use Mac/Linux for work.

@Daniel:

"You guys are lame, MAC is a mac and that’s it, in mac you could not play all the games, you cannot run all the programs."

Why do you PC users keep thinking that gaming is important to everyone? Professional businessmen don't game. At least, Macs aren't plagued with pathetic software like Windows is.

"However, a pc you could throw anything."

Are you saying that I can run Final Cut Pro on a PC? How about Camino? No, both are exclusively on Mac, so you can't run it on a Windows or a Linux PC. As far as I know, the only video editing software shared by Windows and Mac are the Adobe video editing programs like Premiere CS3. I'm in no way against Linux, but I'm tired of seeing comments like this.

I need to clear two things up first. Number one, the company who makes Mac's is Apple. MAC is not a company, unless you're referring to the the cosmetics store in the mall in which case I need to reinterpret this whole conversation. Second, Mac is not an acronym but is short for Macintosh, and thus is not MAC.

Now I will be the first to admit that you can get things done on either platform. I know that a power-user will get a lot of performance out of their custom built PC and that you can build a pretty powerful machine for cheap.

That being said I find some major logic-errors propagated by the Windows contingent. The first problem is in saying that Windows PC is better because of a lot of reasons average users don't care about. Power users also probably won't often see a blue screen or be dumb enough to contract virus's or spyware and will just go "get" whatever software they need. Most people are not power users.

The average user will have a better out of box experience on a Mac due to not only the quality of the machines themselves, but also because of the quality and amount of useful software included with every new Mac. The iLife suite for example comes with a lot of software practical for things real people want to do. Maintain and organize personal photos, make and edit home movies, create a personal web site. Add a Dot Mac account and you've got the power to then publish those photos, movies, and web sites your own personal web space with one click. Then with another click sync all of your personal preferences, calendars, and address book online so that it not only is accessible from anywhere but also to automatically sync between machines and keep a backup just incase. Speaking of backups, Time Machine is so easy to use and retrieve data from users never have to even think about backups.

Now, you might say; "But I can do all that with my PEECEEEEE!". Of course you can. But I just did it with two clicks. In the meantime I didn't have to even think about what web sites I was visiting or what I may contract on them. You may look at this ease of use as a lack of control. That's dead wrong. I'm just achieving the same or better effect with less effort on my part. Networking for example hasn't been a thought for months, because I automatically see every computer on any network I attach to. I feel more in control of my Mac than any PC I ever used. The fact that there is now boot-camp and parallels so that I can dump right into Windows if I ever really needed to (I don't), kind of makes this argument moot altogether.

So yes, Windows can do a lot of the same things. But please don't try to tell me it's any more than subjectively better without at least understanding the two issues I brought up in my first paragraph.

Mac users are like some type of special interest group. The fact is that pc is far superior to a mac. I prove this time and time again to my die hard mac friends. My system with lesser specs out performs their macs everytime. Mac will have to put out more than a fancy case to impress me.

You welcome Toyo.

Hi
I was very much helped by the information with this article.
Many thanks at you very fascinating resource.

After being a proud member of the MAC cult for many years now, I have finally gotten my husband to convert both his small business and personal computers to MAC. In keeping with PC thinking, he cannot wrap his head around what Mac and Leopard can and will do for the efficiency of his life and work. Stuck in a PC fog, he cannot believe that there is no such thing as a tower for a MAC desktop, and he doesn't need to buy additional software, or need to use a third party to access remotely. With MAC, as we all know, everything he needs is all there. Even the ability to access PC's remotely and run Windows based programs on his desktop still hasn't sunk in. I cannot wait....he's so gonna be one of 'us.'

What a dull world it would be with only one OS...
Some people are getting tired of these MAC vs PC battles. Think of it as the spices of the virtual world. If there was only Vista or only OS X or Linux... how boring ...

To all you Mac users, I give you props. But to all you PC users, I don't really care. Honestly I prefer that you stay right where you are. The more Mac for us. I mean really, Macs in general are a great computer and Apple really puts their heart into these machines and the OS. They have terrific design, interface, functionality, and long life. I mean they build these computers, it would only be a given that the machines were specifically designed around their software.

I'm a mac user and i ahve only been for a year before that i used windows ive alway hated windows i tried vista and i hated it i mean it was alright but the feature werent that amazing i mean who care if you can have bigger icons i can zoom my desktop in with control+scroll ball but as for mario comment saying you can get the same thing for a mbp as a del well one slight problem a mac has the smc firmware as all windows box have this thing called bios and lets face it smc is way more powerful

If you love PC, it's ok, whatever suits you and you enjoy.
But it would be fun if 1 day a year all the users try to use the different system (PC lovers use LEOPARD and MAC lovers try VISTA)
I did it and I appreciate my Mac much more (even with a little problems I, from time to time, have :)

btw comparing TOYOTA (PC) vs. ROLLS ROYCE (MAC)
because Toyota is much more handy of a car than Rolls :)

((Mario
Jun 13th, 2007 at 3:46 am
Well it is technically possible to run OS X on a Pc, x86 chipset and you are halfway there, and really, apart from the design, modern intel macs are not that different from other PC, ok they might be cheaper if compared to PC with the same specs but the ingredients in a modern day MBP is the same that you can get from Dell.))

Sorry, but how can you compare dell to mac? Even the cheapest Macbook has got so much more of the features than expensive Dell laptops. From webcam, remote to harddrive shock protection (when you drop macbook or macbook pro, computer sensor detects the fast motion and disengage the harddrive from the computer to avoid shock)Not even talking about the eco aspects of it

You guys are lame, MAC is a mac and that's it, in mac you could not play all the games, you cannot run all the programs. However, a pc you could throw anything. Macs looks gret, but does not act as it looks. and one more thing. GO VISTA, the best, must of the bugs had benn fixed as on October 31, 2007, by the way no operating system is perfect not even mac, windows, linux, solaris, unix, none. however, vista stands out.

Report your experiences. Use the OS that you like best. What more is there to say?

What the f*** ever. PC please. You probably dont use the internet. XP is a piece of shit. Maby you have not used Mac becuase its hell of different. And for your XP it will go away next June retard. And all the software and hardware will only be good for vista after that. So you will have to get Vista that = shit and more shit. The new Leaopard is kicking vista's ass. You are trying to compare Your little Honda to My BMW. I will beat you all day long.

I love my PC, but I can work a Mac. I don't not like Macs, but I like the way that everything is on my PC... I LOVE CONTROL!!!

Yo Mark, It looks like you fall into the not so smart group. Your can't write for shit and your reasons hold zero merit. We want dumb people to use PC's that may they can stay dumb.

I'm a PC user and have been for all my life, but I use Macs and put up with them. I don't like them but I can stand it. What I can't stand is meaningless debates that won't gain anything. Governments debate all the time and don't gain anything and this is the same as with Mac vs PC or Vista vs Leopard. I want to say though that Vista is not a perfect OS. It is terrible and I am glad to stick with XP. The same thing though with Leopard. It will have its flaws. But on the topic of XP, it does the job and I haven't seen a blue-screen or virus or spyware, etc for years. It comes down to the user. If you are smart, the computer is smart. The same thing applies with Mac: know what your doing and you'll be fine. Mac is for video and graphics people and PCs are for gamers. I know Mac has games but PC has more and same thing vice versa: Mac has more video/graphics and CAD stuff. They're good for who wants them. People wouldn't but either if either was so bad.

Yeah Mario, you're right I've heard about the x86 hack a long time ago...

I wasn't really talking about the Machines but about the OS's...

You can also take a look at the 9rules discussion on that.

Well it is technically possible to run OS X on a Pc, x86 chipset and you are halfway there, and really, apart from the design, modern intel macs are not that different from other PC, ok they might be cheaper if compared to PC with the same specs but the ingredients in a modern day MBP is the same that you can get from Dell.

LOOOL :razz:

All your base are belong to us!

:evil: